scourgicus, le 04 avril 2013 - 19:43, dit :
Does the “Gray Maybe” mean “what could be?” (cf Tiber Septim’s comment to Barenziah viz. her pregnancy). Creation, then, lacking a focusing agent/catalyst would be an uncertain and ephemeral “thing”. Is that a fair assessment?
Maybe
In fact, even if it is an word for "Nirn", it is often used for Aurbis (
Monomyth). And close, if not the same thing, of the grey center.
Aurbis' is used to connote the imperceptible Penumbra, the Gray Center between the IS/IS NOT of Anu and Padomay.
Aurbis being the reunion of Anu and padomay, sometimes descibed as "Light" and "Darkness". Thus, grey. Probably because in TES, all is created by the "fight" of Stasis and Change. Note that even after the Creation, Mundus is still in the grey maybe ; so, probably no lack of catalyst.
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Is Time, then, (read: Akatosh) the catalyst to a more focused creation/existence?
The catalyst is often love, and female. Time is a force in opposition with Space, reforming the promrdial is/is not, stasis,/change opposition.
Time was created by the interplay of Anu and padomay, for example. Even if it is often seen as "our coimmon time", its personalisation by an "orginal spririt", and the manifestations of "Dragon breaking", show that it isn't exactly the same thing. Not only being linear/non-linear, but something that seem totally undescriptible.
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Dragon and Missing Gods – Dragon relates to Time, Missing to mortal plane: does this denote a dichotomy/enantiomorph/division between Time and the mortal plane/mortality/mortals? What does that mean? There are numerous implications here.
Time can be seen as the acceptation of change to return to a more static state. But it also enables a lot of possibility, like mortality which "
should be seen as an opportunity, and in no way tedious" (36 Sermons)
Here, the dichotomy is embodied by Akatosh/Shezzar (as Lorkhatosh)
The missing God is important on two points ; first, as lorkhan, as he gave up what he was to give the possibility of using New Ways. Then, the missing Observer of the Enantiomorph, who is important in the creation of the Amranth.
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Anu’s Light, Padomay’s Void. Light and Dark…why is stasis seen as Light and change as Void or Dark?
Comes from Daggerfall, when they where Daedra (demons) une Darkness (evil) and Divines (Gods) uner Light.
It was changed, to fit a more "gray" view : Padomay, is an help for the Ways, when Anu is important for "Love". But the "Good/Evil" is pointed as a bad apprximation, now.
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Yokudan myth – the “shedding of the worldskin”/world death/re-birth reveals the pattern of birth/death and the et’Ada’s identities within the cycle. Would this mean identity for the et’Ada is related (at least initially) to the cycle?
It is suposed that these "ccles" might be related to the partial awakings of the Godhead. Some Spirit managing to avoid the erasing, and discovering that they "are" indepandantly of the Godhead 'seing the Void out of the Aurbis), and repeating this (world destroyed while people on have to understand that they are all in fact, reaching the Amaranth) with Mundus.
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Please say more about the Far Shores. The text suggests them as place/process/time of waiting.
My vue is very Old/New Ways related. These far Shores seem a Way of reuniting Redguard souls, using their knowledge (
The lower regions crawl with these souls, caves of shallow treasures, meeting in places to testify by way of extension, when love is only satisfied by a considerable (incalculable) effort.') to try to understand together how to free themselves.
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Is Sep Lorkhan? If not how would Sep relate to other figures in the creation myths (this would make sense if he were viz. the “scaly mane” in Shor Son of Shor).
Sep is very close of Lorkhan. Of course, we could try to find difference. The Problem, as usual with redguard faith, id that it is... different. As explaines by MK :
Tall Papa as Magnus?
Syrsly?
Think raga. Then think of the various ways the Sun would affect the Weather/Eyeball/BodyClock/Agriculture/TheShineOfASingleDewdropBeforeAnImportantDuel.
Just how many gods would you have to govern acknowledge those?
Sep might be a part of what lorkhan represent, but the HoonDing might be another one, for example.
On the other hand, Sep is very strongly linked with Sithis.
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Cyrodiilic – split between Auriel and Akatosh (were they split before/during creation or as a result of the mythopoeic beliefs of their worshippers?) This is something I’ve been trying to work out for awhile.
- Auriel might be an Ehlnofey, who treturned to Aetherius, and thus joined the of Dragon God.
- He might have separate from Lorkhan when the maruhkatis tried to "remove Elven part of Akatosh".
The two having maybe even influenced what we see, moreover when a lot of the consequences are partially retroactive. And we can also see that sometime, what we see as Akatosh is named Auriel, or even Anuiel named Auriel.
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Altmeri myth – am I understanding correctly that the Altmer see change as a limitation or imperfection? And that (a la Anu’s self-reflection) self-understanding comes through limitation and thereby imperfection? Fascinating possibilities here.
It's the way of explaning it "to dummies". Stasis is more perfect, but also more complete, without influence of subgradience which will "corrupt" things.
The point is about all Ways. The New Ways are probably dangerous, they might awake the godhead. The Altmer think that, in a more or less extremist way, these ways must be avoided, and return to the safe Old Ways.
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Is Lorkhan’s heart his physical heart or his soul (more than hands)? If his soul is Lorkhan then the soul of Auriel, the soul of Anuiel, the soul of Anu?
Well, soul in TES is probably the primordial thing of divine being. Mortal are fractionned Divine souls, magicka is part of Gods, and thus parts of souls.
So, a good part of the soul of lorkhan is probably in his heart. But not all, if part of it became Sheoggorath. It is interesting to see that we freed his hert, and another part of his soul.
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The theme of my paper is how creation stories define our relationship to the Divine. In TES we see the relationships between the gods (let alone among mortals) defined almost solely by Stasis and Change. Almost invariably Stasis is seen as good and Change as bad (especially among the Altmer but you could say the same in the Yokudan myth – spirits change and thus unable to reach Far Shores).
Dunmer see Change as good :
SITHISIT is the start of all true Houses, built against statis [sic] and lazy slaves.. Yoku is very interesting. When the monomyth shows an "Anuic" view, with return to divinity agains Lorkhan, but nthe "non-star" and "void" also make think another way of seeing it in Redguard Religion, with HoonDing leading them (even if they may not know it) to this Void, the Amaranth.
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The games tend to follow this pattern as well (in Morrowind the Tribunal becoming gods [change] brings sorrow upon their people, and their loss of god-hood [change returning to stasis] causes sorrow again.
At very long term, removing their Godhood allow the Dunmer to follow the nerevarine, symbol of the Amaranth.
Finally in Skyrim the changes of the Great War (not the least being the worship of Talos) bring civil war and the shutting down of Snow Throat and the coming of Alduin. Even with Alduin defeated the changes of the Great War threaten further damage (the Thalmor).
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In Oblivion the loss of the Emperor [change] brings about invasion from Oblivion, and while Martin saves the world/creation by his sacrifice [change] it also renders White Gold Tower inoperable as a Tower (or did the Thalmor do that? I’ve never been certain).
No. But it si a good thing, becaus the White gold Tower is a
machine of mass destruction;
If the Ayleids made their own Wheel within the Wheel, were-web aad semblio, what would happen if they plucked its strings?
Destroyng the tower would destroy the World. The Stability (stasis) of this tower by the Ayleid was to destroy (change) the world to return to greater Stasis.
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